Advanced Language Learning
As I've just blown through a year and half learning Japanese and starting to feel as though I'm getting to a respectable level I've come to some conclusions I think apply to learning languages in general. So, I'll be interested to see if this holds true in French as well when I reach that point.
Some of this might sound obvious. But, while on paper it seems like nothing else could make sense. In practicality, for me, it didn't click earlier on. And, it didn't really need to, which may be part of why I needed to rediscover it first hand.
The first point is, you're never going to magically start understanding new words you've never seen before. I mean, this isn't 100% true, some times you come across a new compound word or you see/hear a word and from the context it is obvious what the word means.
But, even then it isn't exactly magical, is it? Firstly, compound words generally require some context as well. The exception would be if the compounds are identical to a compound word in your primary language. If they are simply similar and you have no context, you may guess, but wouldn't be sure.
And, getting meaning from words from context alone, is a very advanced skill. It means you need to understand the full context of everything else.
You're reading this, and your first thoughts are "duh, of course". So, why am I pointing this out like it is in any way useful information? Many people learning a language wish to become fluent, or good enough for conversation, or good enough to watch TV or read books in a language.
No course will give you this. No test will prove you've made it this far. And the line in sand is invisible. You'll never know when you've crossed it. In my mid-30s, I can confidently watch ALMOST any material in my native language with 100% comprehension. And that requires a vocabulary of tens of thousands of words. It also requires a knowledge of how to break grammar rules acceptably. And knowledge of hundreds, if not thousands of common figures of speech which don't necessarily make sense based on their literal translations.
I can watch, say a science documentary, and still encounter words I've never heard or never learned the meanings of. I can read a book written translated from old English and be unable to decipher figures of speech of fully grasp the use of certain grammar.
In other words, I've been learning English in a fully immersive environment, as a native speaker, with it as my sole language up until a year and a half ago. And I STILL encounter words, grammar and phrases I don't know. Sure, the incidence level is crazy low. I can't actually remember the last time it happened. But, it has happened, and it likely will happen again.
So, why would I expect to EVER reach a level in ANOTHER language where I can just watch, read or listen to ANYTHING and feel sure I'd understand it completely?
Even if you adjust the bar. For me, the bar is high school student-like proficiency. By the time you graduated high school, you probably knew enough that 99% of the time you could understand 100% of what was going on. You may need help with things like filling out government forms. Or you might need to look up a new word if you started dabbling in a new field. But, if you stick with your circle of friends and your existing hobbies and the sorts of things high school kids need to be concerned with, you'll almost never hit any unknowns.
I mean, the bar for me is really, like 80% of that level. Again, it still requires a massive vocabulary and tons of real world exposure.
So, if courses can't take you there. Why not? And what can you do to get there?
Well, the "why not" is simple. Every person is different. My high school vocabulary would have been drastically different than another persons. It is driven by hobbies, experience and who we associate with. My friends in school who were obsessed with cars probably knew more car based vocabulary back then, than I do, even now. And girls tended to have different vocab from boys. Rich and poor. Athletic and academic. Wind instrument player and strings.
In short, while you may be fluent in your own language. If a friend handed you a book or magazine on a hobby you don't share, you might be lost reading it, while they might be able to fully comprehend it.
And therein lies the answer as well. No course will be comprehensive enough to teach you everything. Because they'd literally need to teach you EVERYTHING. And not even natives know THAT much after decades of living. But, you don't need to know EVERYTHING. You just need a comparable level of most things, centered around the things that matter to you.
And to get that, you need to learn from those things.
That means, taking material you're interested in, and breaking it down until you understand every single word. And then applying that over and over again. Depending on how much studying you've done and what material you're tackling, this could be daunting at first. But, each successive article should take less and less effort.
This also gets to the heart of why I titled this "Advanced Language Learning". You absolutely can start doing this at ANY time in your language learning (resources permitting). But, it can also be a soul crushing experience to destroy your motivation. It can also "box you in", in the sense that, if your interests are narrow, you may not learn enough to get by in that language, which may be OK depending on your goals.
Quick example, in Japanese, in anime and manga, there is a lot of speech which isn't really used in the real world. And, these stories often center around groups of friends or enemies. As such, there is a lot more casual Japanese than formal. If you're interest was actually learning Japanese but you chose to learn solely from anime and/or manga... well, you'd probably find you seem like a rude, idiot with an over the top personality if you ever went to Japan. Of course, if your goal is just to be able to read manga and watch anime in native Japanese, then there is no problem.
So, my recommendation flows from all of the above. When you reach what you feel is an advanced level, if your interested in actually learning the language generally, then start trying to find native language resources. And a wide variety of them. Books, magazines, TV shows, radio, etc... and try and look for stuff you'd have been interested in at different ages in your life. And probably, start with the younger stuff as it will probably be shorter and simpler and provide a foundation for the resources aimed at older audiences.
Then, with each resource, dissect it until you understand it, in its entirety.
While the approach isn't necessarily the native approach, it is (I think) the learner's equivalent.
Some of this might sound obvious. But, while on paper it seems like nothing else could make sense. In practicality, for me, it didn't click earlier on. And, it didn't really need to, which may be part of why I needed to rediscover it first hand.
The first point is, you're never going to magically start understanding new words you've never seen before. I mean, this isn't 100% true, some times you come across a new compound word or you see/hear a word and from the context it is obvious what the word means.
But, even then it isn't exactly magical, is it? Firstly, compound words generally require some context as well. The exception would be if the compounds are identical to a compound word in your primary language. If they are simply similar and you have no context, you may guess, but wouldn't be sure.
And, getting meaning from words from context alone, is a very advanced skill. It means you need to understand the full context of everything else.
You're reading this, and your first thoughts are "duh, of course". So, why am I pointing this out like it is in any way useful information? Many people learning a language wish to become fluent, or good enough for conversation, or good enough to watch TV or read books in a language.
No course will give you this. No test will prove you've made it this far. And the line in sand is invisible. You'll never know when you've crossed it. In my mid-30s, I can confidently watch ALMOST any material in my native language with 100% comprehension. And that requires a vocabulary of tens of thousands of words. It also requires a knowledge of how to break grammar rules acceptably. And knowledge of hundreds, if not thousands of common figures of speech which don't necessarily make sense based on their literal translations.
I can watch, say a science documentary, and still encounter words I've never heard or never learned the meanings of. I can read a book written translated from old English and be unable to decipher figures of speech of fully grasp the use of certain grammar.
In other words, I've been learning English in a fully immersive environment, as a native speaker, with it as my sole language up until a year and a half ago. And I STILL encounter words, grammar and phrases I don't know. Sure, the incidence level is crazy low. I can't actually remember the last time it happened. But, it has happened, and it likely will happen again.
So, why would I expect to EVER reach a level in ANOTHER language where I can just watch, read or listen to ANYTHING and feel sure I'd understand it completely?
Even if you adjust the bar. For me, the bar is high school student-like proficiency. By the time you graduated high school, you probably knew enough that 99% of the time you could understand 100% of what was going on. You may need help with things like filling out government forms. Or you might need to look up a new word if you started dabbling in a new field. But, if you stick with your circle of friends and your existing hobbies and the sorts of things high school kids need to be concerned with, you'll almost never hit any unknowns.
I mean, the bar for me is really, like 80% of that level. Again, it still requires a massive vocabulary and tons of real world exposure.
So, if courses can't take you there. Why not? And what can you do to get there?
Well, the "why not" is simple. Every person is different. My high school vocabulary would have been drastically different than another persons. It is driven by hobbies, experience and who we associate with. My friends in school who were obsessed with cars probably knew more car based vocabulary back then, than I do, even now. And girls tended to have different vocab from boys. Rich and poor. Athletic and academic. Wind instrument player and strings.
In short, while you may be fluent in your own language. If a friend handed you a book or magazine on a hobby you don't share, you might be lost reading it, while they might be able to fully comprehend it.
And therein lies the answer as well. No course will be comprehensive enough to teach you everything. Because they'd literally need to teach you EVERYTHING. And not even natives know THAT much after decades of living. But, you don't need to know EVERYTHING. You just need a comparable level of most things, centered around the things that matter to you.
And to get that, you need to learn from those things.
That means, taking material you're interested in, and breaking it down until you understand every single word. And then applying that over and over again. Depending on how much studying you've done and what material you're tackling, this could be daunting at first. But, each successive article should take less and less effort.
This also gets to the heart of why I titled this "Advanced Language Learning". You absolutely can start doing this at ANY time in your language learning (resources permitting). But, it can also be a soul crushing experience to destroy your motivation. It can also "box you in", in the sense that, if your interests are narrow, you may not learn enough to get by in that language, which may be OK depending on your goals.
Quick example, in Japanese, in anime and manga, there is a lot of speech which isn't really used in the real world. And, these stories often center around groups of friends or enemies. As such, there is a lot more casual Japanese than formal. If you're interest was actually learning Japanese but you chose to learn solely from anime and/or manga... well, you'd probably find you seem like a rude, idiot with an over the top personality if you ever went to Japan. Of course, if your goal is just to be able to read manga and watch anime in native Japanese, then there is no problem.
So, my recommendation flows from all of the above. When you reach what you feel is an advanced level, if your interested in actually learning the language generally, then start trying to find native language resources. And a wide variety of them. Books, magazines, TV shows, radio, etc... and try and look for stuff you'd have been interested in at different ages in your life. And probably, start with the younger stuff as it will probably be shorter and simpler and provide a foundation for the resources aimed at older audiences.
Then, with each resource, dissect it until you understand it, in its entirety.
While the approach isn't necessarily the native approach, it is (I think) the learner's equivalent.
Comments
Post a Comment